Curse

Targren · Jun 03, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

It's an old story... You finish a long, grueling dungeon crawl with a mate and 6 heroes and come back to town victorious with bags full of great loot and 1/8th of the gold that dropped. But then what happens?

I'll tell you what happens. You end up standing in Kamadan for three days spamming $Trade like Molly Frelling Malone whilst Olias and Whispers are hanging out in the penthouse of the Sunspear Hilton sucking lines of pure Kryta Flake off of Livia's legs (You wondered why Heroes never came into town? That's why). Freeloading buggers.

Anyway... /Rant, and on to the suggestion.

If heroes are around in GW2, I think a "Hero Equipment Point" system should be in place, like the hero skill points. For every X gold picked up by your heroes (say, 1k or something), you get a hero equipment point you can use for weapons, runes, and such... doesn't even have to (and probably shouldn't) take drops into account, just gold.

jiggles · Jun 03, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Most retarded suggestion ever. While your at it why dont you charge your mate for going along and helping too.

Tool.

MagmaRed · Jun 03, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I was expecting something sensible. Like PvP characters being able to use unlocks to equip hero armor, and adding a new way of obtaining the unlocks. Instead of using Balth Faction and having it available to all your characters you could use a hero equipment point (or whatever they'd be called) and only be able to use those unlocks on heroes. Would make it a little easier for some people to do HB maybe, but I still don't see it as needed.

Asia Skyly · Jun 03, 2009, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I like the idea!

I for one would also like to see more RPG elements into the Heroes and this is a form of it. One thing however, what you buy with hero points should be for that hero ONLY.

This way your favorite heroes, get the preferred treatment.

gremlin · Jun 04, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Just as there are some GW players who stick to PVP while others play PVE or both, there are players who have a tendency to Roleplay their characters.

Not everyone calls their avatars Toons, some create histories around them as well as names, and I am all for GW being a game for all players.
So anything that appears logical and adds to character and hero reality is to be encouraged.

Its a good basic idea just needs some work on how it could be applied.

Heroes once recruited are permanently allied to an individual character in the game, at that point anything they find during play should be available for that hero to use.
I don't want it too complicated but they should have something to show for items dropped to them or gold shared.

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 04, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

I'll tell you what happens. You end up standing in Kamadan for three days spamming $Trade like Molly Frelling Malone whilst Olias and Whispers are hanging out in the penthouse of the Sunspear Hilton sucking lines of pure Kryta Flake off of Livia's legs (You wondered why Heroes never came into town? That's why). Freeloading buggers.

i liked this, thats about it

Boneyard Spleeneater · Jun 04, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

/Signed.

If we have to suffer in these tough economic times, I say its time to bust the hero's union too.

Targren · Jun 04, 2009, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

i liked this, thats about it

That was my favorite part too.

That's what prompted the unfleshed-out idea. At the moment, the only purpose loot-splitting serves is to punish you for playing with heroes.

Arduin · Jun 04, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

That was my favorite part too.

That's what prompted the unfleshed-out idea. At the moment, the only purpose loot-splitting serves is to punish you for playing with heroes.

Erm no. Playing with actual players instead of Heroes will get you the same loot.

Targren · Jun 04, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Erm no. Playing with actual players instead of Heroes will get you the same loot.

But in that case, the gold isn't disappearing into the ether, and you don't have to (unless they're particularly leechy guildies) outfit other players with your own cash.

MagmaRed · Jun 04, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

But in that case, the gold isn't disappearing into the ether, and you don't have to (unless they're particularly leechy guildies) outfit other players with your own cash.

Heroes come with their armor already, no need to buy it for them. Upgrading the armor is an option you can make if you wish to. Heroes also come with a weapon, you don't need to give them a new one. Granted, the weapons they get are not that good, but if you want to give them better ones, that is your OPTION.

Heroes are not people, and are not supposed to replace them. Stop expecting Anet to treat heroes like players. They are already better than we need to beat the games, I don't see why we need to get 'free' items to upgrade them with.

Targren · Jun 04, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Heroes come with their armor already, no need to buy it for them. Upgrading the armor is an option you can make if you wish to. Heroes also come with a weapon, you don't need to give them a new one. Granted, the weapons they get are not that good, but if you want to give them better ones, that is your OPTION.

Running through the entire game in HM naked with a starter weapon is also an "option" (and not just for 600s). It's pointlessly gimping yourself.

Same with not outfitting heroes. Don't do it if you want to play the equivalent of a "low-level" challenge.

Saying that things shouldn't be improved because it's "optional", as is done very often around here, is ridiculous. Playing the game at all is "optional," the "good old days" of Prophesies are gone, and naysaying any suggested improvement for no good reason is pointless.

Quote:

Heroes are not people, and are not supposed to replace them.

Err. What? They ARE supposed to replace people. That's sort of the entire point of them. If they weren't supposed to replace people, then you'd either not be able to play when no people were around, or you'd be able to solo everything...

Quote:

Stop expecting Anet to treat heroes like players. They are already better than we need to beat the games, I don't see why we need to get 'free' items to upgrade them with.

Because they're not 'free' items. It's entirely consistent with the logic of why drops are split with heroes in the first place. They take their share. Fair enough. Let them use part their share instead of the players'.

Hell, even at the 1k=1point conversion, you'd have to pick up 80 piles of 100g per point. It's not like it's going to flood the game and ruin the "economy" (*snrk*), and even if it was, the numbers can be fudged.

MagmaRed · Jun 04, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Running through the entire game in HM naked with a starter weapon is also an "option" (and not just for 600s). It's pointlessly gimping yourself.

Same with not outfitting heroes. Don't do it if you want to play the equivalent of a "low-level" challenge.

Saying that things shouldn't be improved because it's "optional", as is done very often around here, is ridiculous. Playing the game at all is "optional," the "good old days" of Prophesies are gone, and naysaying any suggested improvement for no good reason is pointless.

Err. What? They ARE supposed to replace people. That's sort of the entire point of them. If they weren't supposed to replace people, then you'd either not be able to play when no people were around, or you'd be able to solo everything...

Because they're not 'free' items. It's entirely consistent with the logic of why drops are split with heroes in the first place. They take their share. Fair enough. Let them use part their share instead of the players'.

Hell, even at the 1k=1point conversion, you'd have to pick up 80 piles of 100g per point. It's not like it's going to flood the game and ruin the "economy" (*snrk*), and even if it was, the numbers can be fudged.

Heroes do not run through the game naked, and can't. They get max level armor as soon as they hit lvl 20. They do not have starter weapons except for Koss, although Tahlkora, Dunkoro, Melonni, and a couple others have early to mid range weapons instead of max.

Heroes are designed to be the same as Hench, except better. They are not supposed to replace humans, but to fill in when there are not enough humans. They do replace humans for a lot of people, but that is sad, not what was intended.

Humans, hench, and heroes all contribute to the success of a quest/mission/battle. Because of this, they all receive their share of the loot. Yes, you pay to provide runes, insignias, weapons, etc. for the heroes if you want to improve them, but you don't have to. Heroes don't have a choice of helping you. If you want them to come, they have to. Consider their upgrades as payment for their services. It takes VERY little to priovide heroes with 'perfect' weapons. Collectors can be found in many places that provide stats for any weapon you want to use on a hero. Items drop with runes, insignias, weapon mods, inscriptions, etc. as well. True, you could sell those items to a merchant or player and make some money, but you could also use hench to replace the heroes you were using.

I understand we disagree, but I don't think you understand what I am saying.

Heroes are not required. Their armor is max naturally. They can be improved, but that is a choice based on how you want to play. The cost to improve them is minimal, and adding a new feature simply to reduce that cost is pointless to me. Heroes have already made the game too easy, why make it even easier to use those heroes to max effect?

zwei2stein · Jun 04, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

People routinely beat HM stuff with heroes without armor/weapon upgrades. I don't hear them complaining.

Its nice to have maxed out heroes, but it is not by far required. Its is more of optional goal.

Handing out free stuff is just dumb in game where [collectors] exist anyway.

Targren · Jun 04, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Heroes do not run through the game naked, and can't. They get max level armor as soon as they hit lvl 20. They do not have starter weapons except for Koss, although Tahlkora, Dunkoro, Melonni, and a couple others have early to mid range weapons instead of max.

I was talking about players running through unequipped. It is an "option" after all. Doesn't mean it's a smart decision.

Quote:

Heroes are designed to be the same as Hench, except better. They are not supposed to replace humans, but to fill in when there are not enough humans. They do replace humans for a lot of people, but that is sad, not what was intended.

The box from the original GW disagrees. The game was intended to be able to be played without others.

Quote:

Humans, hench, and heroes all contribute to the success of a quest/mission/battle. Because of this, they all receive their share of the loot. Yes, you pay to provide runes, insignias, weapons, etc. for the heroes if you want to improve them, but you don't have to. Heroes don't have a choice of helping you. If you want them to come, they have to. Consider their upgrades as payment for their services.

The logic for them counting in loot scaling was that the DROPS were payment for their services.

Quote:

It takes VERY little to priovide heroes with 'perfect' weapons. Collectors can be found in many places that provide stats for any weapon you want to use on a hero. Items drop with runes, insignias, weapon mods, inscriptions, etc. as well. True, you could sell those items to a merchant or player and make some money, but you could also use hench to replace the heroes you were using.

I never said it was hard to get them, or even expensive. In fact, I know it's NOT expensive. That's the point. I'm not saying that they should get ectos from it. Crappy blue-skins will suffice.

We already have hero skill points for improving our heroes, so what's the downside? "There's no reason to make it [less tedious](fixed)" isn't a downside.

Quote:

Heroes are not required. Their armor is max naturally. They can be improved, but that is a choice based on how you want to play. The cost to improve them is minimal, and adding a new feature simply to reduce that cost is pointless to me. Heroes have already made the game too easy, why make it even easier to use those heroes to max effect?

Just because it's pointless to you and heroes make the game too easy for youdoesn't make it a bad idea. Not everyone has your l33t skillz or the desire to spend 40 hours (with 7 H/H, of course) farming the same area for irritating drops to give to collectors.

rick1027 · Jun 04, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

/Signed.

If we have to suffer in these tough economic times, I say its time to bust the hero's union too.

i was thin king unsigned til you post yes must get mt mafia friends on this right away... illegal union and all needs to be destroyed

pumpkin pie · Jun 05, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

lol, put a cap on your imagination!

Even though this idea means that I am going to get more gold, but I have to /not signed

Scary · Jun 05, 2009, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

Most retarded suggestion ever. While your at it why dont you charge your mate for going along and helping too.

Tool.

I rather like the suggestion

but still you made a point to... Guild tax..

Yep that would solve my
my unstoppable wishes

draxynnic · Jun 05, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asia Skyly

I like the idea!

I for one would also like to see more RPG elements into the Heroes and this is a form of it. One thing however, what you buy with hero points should be for that hero ONLY.

This way your favorite heroes, get the preferred treatment.

Or at least heroes in general. While I personally agree that there should be some representation of heroes spending some of their loot on self-improvement rather than parties and drink, it shouldn't be something the player can personally benefit from. (Possibly make it so that any runes, insignia etc acquired in this manner are bound to the hero in question and cannot be salvaged off, with the price of acquisition linked to the cost at a trader.)